Hong Kong's future is bright, if it can avoid creeping restrictions on press
freedoms. An interviewHong Kong's future is bright, if it can avoid creeping
restrictions on press freedoms. An interview with Jimmy Lai, media executive and
vocal critic of Beijing.
Back in 1997, as Beijing annexed Hong Kong, Jimmy Lai made everybody's short
list of people who would face trouble should Beijing decide to play tough. Lai,
a vocal advocate of democracy, made millions starting trendy clothing retailer
Giordano, then sold it after 1989, in the wake of China's pro-democracy
demonstrations. His next venture, Next Media, is now Hong Kong's largest listed
media company, and the flagship Chinese-language Apple Daily has remained
unabashedly pro-democratic. Yet despite deep misgivings, Lai stayed in Hong Kong
after the British departed, and 10 years on he is unabashedly bullish about the
city state's future. He recently discussed that decision, Hong Kong's various
attributes and the state of China's media industry with NEWSWEEK's George
Wehrfritz. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: People were concerned about media
freedoms being upheld in Hong Kong after 1997. How have things gone since then?
Jimmy Lai:
Beautifully. The press has been free. But a lot of the media has gone into
self-censorship, either because they are so afraid or purely for economic
considerations. They think that if they lean the Chinese government's way they
will get [financial] benefits, or that by getting close to power they will
become the voice of China. Still, there has not been any persecution or
suppression.
What has been your strategy at Next Media?
We are the opposition media here, but we have never had a journalist arrested in
Hong Kong. In China, some have been detained for a few days, then released. But
[the foreign media] have had this happen, too. I have not been allowed in China
for more than 10 years, and our reporters have to work there on tourist visas.
But we have never been intimidated, persecuted or threatened. [Beijing] has
tried very hard to keep the promise of one country, two systems.
Did you expect the Chinese government to act
differently?
Ten years ago a lot of people told me: "They will have to arrest a few hundred
people just to make sure Hong Kong does not revolt." And I thought that if they
were to arrest just 10, maybe I would be one of them. I was scared to death.
Then the People's Liberation Army came in, and ever since we have not seen them
on the street. And nobody has been arrested.
So it's all good news?
Some subtle things have been eroded, like the legacy of Western values. Free
markets, small government, things like that. Under [former chief executive] Tung
Chee-hwa we had some very negative years. People lost their jobs and saw their
houses go into negative asset value. Since China has allowed its tourists to
come here, the economy has revived but we have become more dependent on China.
In the old days we struggled through hard times using our own skills and
resources. Now, whenever we encounter a problem we think that China may be able
to help us. The more we are dependent on China, the more Beijing will be able to
maneuver or even control our lives. This is a danger, but it is very subtle.
Do you know why you are blacklisted?
We have always rubbed [Beijing] the wrong way. But if we do not do that who else
will? If we don't [create] a small space for different opinions, opposition
opinions, there will be no competition of ideas and society will lean to one
side. That would not be good for Hong Kong.
Any hope you might be allowed back into China?
Not for a long time. I think we have very good leverage [over Beijing] in
Taiwan. We are the biggest newspaper and magazine there, which gives us
protection because Beijing cares more about Taiwan than they do Hong Kong, which
is already in their pocket.
When you moved into Taiwan's media market,
some people saw it as a vote of no confidence against
Hong Kong.
You are suggesting it was an insurance policy? That was the intention. I
could not go to the United States and say: "Can you protect me?" Nobody would
care. But I knew Beijing was thinking very much about Taiwan, and that they do
not want bad press there. So we built the Taiwan business as leverage. If they
do anything to us, our Taiwanese readers will know what happened. And Beijing
knows that [should they move against us] we will do everything we can to make
them pay on Taiwan.
What about China's own media? Is it gaining
more freedom as China rises?
The media is actually under greater control than before. [Chinese President] Hu
Jintao has really squeezed them a lot since taking power. If they can find
better ways to control the Internet, better ways to control the media, they will
do so. Eventually, what is going to overcome Chinese control is technology. But
they are not going to launch their own initiatives to open the media [until]
Chinese politics begins to liberalize.
Some experts argue that China does not intend
to Westernize or liberalize, but only to modernize. Do you think people in China
understand what democracy is and want it?
Not at this moment. But anyone who would differentiate between
Westernization and modernization is just talking rubbish. Take out the western
culture and what else is modern? Nothing. The technology is Western, the trendy
culture is Western, all this modernization is Westernization. China is
prosperous today because it deals and interacts with the West. No, democracy is
not on normal people's radars yet. China will be open to it only when the
economic cycle turns down. And when that happens, China will be in chaos.
How so?
In other countries, when there is a recession, you have churches, temples,
charities, NGOs, civic organizations, unions and other institutions reaching out
to help each other. They are shock absorbers. In China, you don't have any of
this. Organizations that are not governmental are not allowed. In China, you
have two pillars: the market and the government. If the market fails, the
government will be dragged down because there is nothing in the middle.
That is just the opposite of what many
economists here say.
There is no such thing as perpetual-motion machines, and no economy without
cycles. We have not seen the boom's flip side yet, and when we do it is going to
be disastrous. As the cake becomes smaller in China, everyone will fight for it.
There is no moral infrastructure. People don't care about anyone but themselves,
about making money and having a better life. Then all of a sudden, this hope is
dashed. People will fight in situations where, in places like Taiwan or the
United States, they would extend their hands to help each other.
What makes you think so?
Look at the environment. The fundamental issue is not regulation but morality.
If I do not care about the people next to me, how much can I care about trees
and animals in the forest, the birds in the air or the fish in the water?
When do you think this crisis could occur?
I have no sense of the timeframe, but things are heating up. The craziness you
see in the stock market is a sign that things may have gone too far already.
China has expanded for the last 20 years. And so far everybody that predicted when it would end has been wrong. But one day they will be right. The government has tried so hard to make the [2008] Olympic Games a success. They have distorted a lot of investment and a lot of infrastructure development [to achieve that], and such waste could be the fatal blow.
Is Hong Kong's economy at risk from
competitors like Shanghai and Singapore?
No. Hong Kong still has financial integrity, professionalism, rule of law
and transparency. All that will draw in the biggest financial deals. It is very
natural. Before China allowed its citizens to visit, our private hospitals were
almost dying. Now they are all full. You cannot just walk in and get a
[hospital] room because Chinese who are rich enough and do not trust their own
hospitals are there. If you believe Hong Kong's rule of law, free-flowing
information, professionalism and integrity are part of our comparative
advantage, you can assume that the more we integrate with China the more our
advantages will be manifested in other areas.
Such as?
Insurance. Legal matters. Anything where you have to trust the system, obey
the law and respect contracts (as they do not do in China) will gravitate here.
At the end of the day, Hong Kong's competitive advantage is the legacy of a Westernized, cosmopolitan city state that we inherited from the British. This Beijing understands. To keep Hong Kong prosperous, you have to preserve its integrity as an international city state.